Reply to comments on Lee's paper, Holy or Unholy

 

Jane wrote:

POINT 1. It is impossible to have something two opposite ways: it is either day time or night time, but not both at the same time. In some places in the article the Bible is quoted as the source of information and truth. In other places the Bible version is claimed to be false having been either dictated by demons or changed through the years by men.

 

My comments:

Jane, the Bible is one LARGE can of worms, and a mess really. Bible scholars know this, but Christian fundamentalists do not, or are in denial about it. It's hardly impossible to have something two opposite ways when it's the Bible. In fact, if you look at lists of Bible contradictions, it almost seems as if it's required. For example (just one of many), in the Bible one of God's foremost and premiere commandments as I'm sure you know is, "Thou shalt not kill," but on the other hand, according to the Bible, God orders the slaughter of the Amalekites, every "man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

 

Thou shalt not kill. - Exodus 20:13

 

Thou shalt not kill. - Deuteronomy 5:17

 

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." 1 Samuel 15:3

 

Gee that's disgusting. Now who could write that? It's either corrupted men with an agenda, or it's the Devil himself slandering God in such a manner. And please don't say it's not a contradiction. It is. And there are hundreds more where that came from.

 

Are you Jewish, Jane? Do you go to Synagogue on Saturday the Sabbath with the Jews? If you're not a Jew, the Old Testament (OT) should be as relevant to you as the Koran or the Bhagavad-Gita, since you aren't Muslim or Hindu either. The OT is the scripture of the Jews. Give it back to them. There's 400 years between the Jewish OT and the Christian New Testament. The Jews don't believe that their OT has anything to do with Jesus, and it's their religion, their scriptures, they're the experts. If they don't believe their scriptures have anything to do with Jesus, why do you? Just because some preacher says there's 300 references to Jesus in the OT and he can prove it? It's just not so, except to the extent that anyone can really "prove" anything. Do you need proof that the earth is flat? There is someone out there who can prove it. I sent an email to a rabbi recently and asked him about that very thing, the alleged 300 references to Jesus in the OT. He just laughed.

 

122:4.4 Most of the so-called Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament were made to apply to Jesus long after his life had been lived on earth. For centuries the Hebrew prophets had proclaimed the coming of a deliverer, and these promises had been construed by successive generations as referring to a new Jewish ruler who would sit upon the throne of David and, by the reputed miraculous methods of Moses, proceed to establish the Jews in Palestine as a powerful nation, free from all foreign domination. Again, many figurative passages found throughout the Hebrew scriptures were subsequently misapplied to the life mission of Jesus. Many Old Testament sayings were so distorted as to appear to fit some episode of the Master’s earth life. Jesus himself onetime publicly denied any connection with the royal house of David. Even the passage, “a maiden shall bear a son,” was made to read, “a virgin shall bear a son.” This was also true of the many genealogies of both Joseph and Mary which were constructed subsequent to Michael’s career on earth. Many of these lineages contain much of the Master’s ancestry, but on the whole they are not genuine and may not be depended upon as factual. The early followers of Jesus all too often succumbed to the temptation to make all the olden prophetic utterances appear to find fulfillment in the life of their Lord and Master. -The Urantia Book

 

If you'd like to get a new perspective on the Bible, you could consider reading "Rescuing The Bible From Fundamentalism" by Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong. It's a best seller, and an easy, good read, for about $11.

 

The attitude of the article seems to be that only those who wrote The Urantia Book and those who follow it can tell the difference between the true parts and the false parts of the Bible. This attitude smacks of vanity and conceit, not to mention being condescending to Christians and others.

 

Well, it's too bad that it "seems" that way. It could simply be hurt feelings on your part, or resentment that others, particularly close relatives don't accept the beliefs that you have swallowed. However, it could well be true. Surely someone in the second grade has more information than someone in kindergarten. Anyway, Christians shouldn't talk much about anyone being condescending to them, they do this all the time. They're constantly saying, "The Bible says this..." or "God said that..." as if it's assumed and well known by the whole world that God is the Father Christian and they are speaking for Him. If anyone is condescending to other religious beliefs and other religionists, it's Christians. Urantia Book reader-believers DO know more. And if you know more, it's hard not to seem like you know more, and some will resent that. The Urantia Book is a new revelation from God's government, but it will be rejected out of hand by many, and perhaps you're one, just as Jesus was rejected out of hand by the Pharisees of his day because they thought they knew it all, and Jesus didn't fit their expectations. In any case, surely Urantians have every right to be as confident and assured about their book and beliefs as Christians do about theirs, Christians who, in the past, have tortured and burned people at the stake for not believing their way.

 

POINT 2. The first sentence states that the "Holy Spirit is provided on our planet by the Universe Mother Spirit (also called the Universe Spirit, the Divine Minister, or the Creative Spirit)". Yet in the gospel of John, chapter 14, verses 15-17, Jesus says that He will ask the Father (God) to give them (the disciples) another Comforter (the Greek word also means Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener and Standby). Please note the word "another". Jesus also called the Comforter the Spirit of Truth in verse 17 of the same chapter and in verse 26 He calls Him the Holy Spirit. So the Bible says the Holy Spirit was sent by God the Father and not by any Universe Mother Spirit. No where in the Bible is there any mention of a "Mother Spirit."

 

So what? The new revelation from God's government will bring you up to speed, if you will but read it and set aside your settled ideas. Jesus was here on earth for thirty-some years, yet Bible scholars say only 21 days of his life are even partially represented in the NT. Read the Urantia Book and you'll find out all about the Universe Mother Spirit. Here's the first reference to her:

 

8:4.4 When a Creator Son of God accepts the creatorship charge of responsibility for a projected local universe, the personalities of the Infinite Spirit pledge themselves as the tireless ministers of this Michael Son when he goes forth on his mission of creative adventure. Especially in the persons of the Creative Daughters, the local universe Mother Spirits, do we find the Infinite Spirit devoted to the task of fostering the ascension of the material creatures to higher and higher levels of spiritual attainment. And all this work of creature ministry is done in perfect harmony with the purposes, and in close association with the personalities, of the Creator Sons of these local universes.

 

POINT 3. The statement is made that people dwelling on the "evolutionary planets" are being lead ever towards their paradise goal of divine destiny. In other words, people are trying to work their way...

 

Uh, uh. If it says "lead" [Did you mean "led"?] then how did you transform that to "trying to work their way"? I just re-read Lee's paragraph and didn't see where it says "trying to work their way." Anyway, we are all "led" much the same way that a lighthouse on a storm blown rocky point leads ships to safety. And yes, the ship's captain has to "work his way" toward the safety of the port, as Jesus said, by doing the Father's will (Matthew 7:21). The lighthouse by itself will not magically teleport the ship into safe harbor.

 

...to this so-called paradise by living better and better lives until they are perfect. It's as if the spiritual contacts are saying 'catch us if you can.' But in John 14:6 Jesus states "I am the Way, and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me," meaning ...

 

Hoho. "Meaning," according to you. And "so-called paradise"? Surely you've heard of paradise?

 

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." - Luke 23:43
 

Consider this, Jesus DOES NOT say what you say it "means" below. And consider this, "no one comes to the Father except by Me" could well be speaking in a geographical sense, -we must go to Jesus' home world on our way to Paradise. But more importantly, there is NO TIME FRAME given. Christians assume, and they tell every one else in their know-it-all fashion, that Jesus means you must believe he died for your sins right here and right now, or else. But that's all just Christian spin, and worse, adding what they think, to Jesus' words.

 

...that by believing in and accepting the sacrifice that Jesus made by living a perfect life and then dying on the cross any person can be in paradise upon their death.

 

I hate to interrupt you but while that may be standard Christian belief and teaching, and you may believe it with all your heart and have swallowed it in its entirety, Jesus does not say that. Read what he says. He was here thirty some years and he NEVER ever said that anyone needed to believe that he came to die on the cross for our sins, or that that was the Good News, or HIS Gospel. You can't get there from here.

 

Jesus NEVER stood before the multitude with his apostles and said:

 

"Hi folks. My name is Jesus and these are my apostles, and we're here today to tell you some GREAT GOOD NEWS, and that good news is that my Father, God, sent me here to earth to die for your sins. If you believe that, you will have eternal life in heaven with Him. But if you don't believe it, then God, my loving father, will torture you in Hell for eternity. Isn't that great news folks? That's right, ladies and gentlemen, that's my gospel."

 

Jesus never said any such thing. The core centerpiece belief of Christianity, and Jesus NEVER said it.

 

But if you DO really believe Jesus, why not believe this?:

 

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, "Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus said to him, "What is written in the law? how do you read it?" And he answered saying, "Thou shall love God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." And Jesus said to him, "Thou has answered right: this do, and thou shall live." (Luke 10:25-28)

 

Do this and you will have eternal life, the Son of God says! Love God, and love your neighbor. Could it be any clearer or simpler than that? Nothing about dying for anyone's sins there (or anywhere else, from Jesus).

 

To justify other views not from the Son of God (such as from Paul) concerning what one must do to be saved (have eternal life with God), it has been suggested by some that Jesus' answer to the lawyer, "Thou has answered right: this do, and thou shall live," was lacking, or was somehow incomplete. But how could that be? Any such “lacking” or “incomplete” information or reply from Jesus would also be misleading, and how could anything said by the Son of God be misleading? Such ideas are blasphemous, an affront to God. The Master’s answer to the lawyer was indeed all the lawyer needed to know to attain eternal life with God in Heaven. And it's all we need to know. Followers of Paul however have different ideas and have added [Paul's ideas] to the Master's clear teachings.

 

The Bible also says that all men (and women) are sinners, meaning that they are separated from God.

 

The Bible is wrong if it says that. I think you you're talking about the teachings of Paul again. Read the parable of the prodigal son and see the lesson there about being "separated from God." Just as soon as the father in that story saw his son coming down the road he ran out to meet him and  welcomed him home. I don't follow Paul, and I'm not a Jew, so neither are relevant to me. I follow Jesus. Furthermore, it doesn't say that all men are sinners, not without contradicting itself:

 

Here are some:

 

GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.

JB 1:1,8 2:3 Job was righteous.

LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.

JA 5:16 Some men are righteous,

1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous

 

If Noah and Job and Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous, then your statement that "all men (and women) are sinners" is false.

 

So anyone living on earth now is far, far away from being perfect or being worthy of paradise.

 

That's right, probably, though we can't know the individual spiritual status of every one of God's six billion children on earth. It will take a long time of perfection training and yearning. Just as a kindergartener is not instantly promoted to the 12th grade. What sort of goofy universe would that be? Perfection must be earned just as anything of any value in life has to be earned. Contrary to what Christians might believe, God will not magically transform any human into a perfect being. Such is simply wishful thinking, much like childrens' belief in the Tooth Fairy.

 

POINT 4. Also no proof is offered concerning the statement "evolutionary planets". It does no good to quote The Urantia Book on this matter because no proof of any kind is offered that The Urantia Book is telling any truth.

 

It doesn't matter if proof of the statement is offered or not. The Urantia Book is giving us new, unearned information about the cosmos that will prove itself someday. Obviously we don't have the means as humans to prove it now, and what you are asking for as proof is really looking for "signs and wonders." Why should the book have to prove itself to you? They asked Jesus the same sort of thing, "By what authority do you teach," and he refused to tell them. Likewise they demanded that he come down from the cross to prove he was who he said he was. But he provided no such proof. Look around you, there are trillions of stars in the sky. Does a farmer plow a 40 acre field to plant one seed of corn in the middle and leave the rest fallow?

 

Whereas the Bible has been proven accurate by archaeological expeditions and by the fulfilling of prophecies made in the Old Testament. In fact, on a CBS News broadcast on March 25, 2005, they showed two silver plaques, proven to be 2600 years old, that contained the inscription of the Priest's Prayer from the Old Testament.

 

No doubt the Bible (by which you really mean the Jewish scriptures) is going to be historically accurate to some degree. And why not? After all, it is a sort of history of the Jews. One could certainly expect that a history, however flawed, would contain some truth about historic events and places. And whether or not any Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled is certainly an open question. Only if one accepts Bible fundamentalist preachers' statements about that could anyone believe it's true. Ask the Jews which ones have been fulfilled. It's their book, their scriptures, their text, a text which has been appropriated by the Christians for their own use.

 

Consequently, the Bible account of creation, though not completely understood, can be accepted as being true.

 

That's complete, Christian nonsense (Except for the part about "though not completely understood." That's certainly right.), and only fundamentalist Christians believe it in what can only be described as willful ignorance.

 

The theory of evolution is false.

 

Tsk, tsk. The people who wrote the Genesis account of creation also believed in a flat earth at the center of the universe with stars that they could reach if they just built a tower tall enough. The theory of evolution is certainly flawed, but God did use an evolutionary process. The geologic record clearly shows it. It's evolutionary, "Intelligent Design."

 

I've deleted the Paul stuff. Paul is irrelevant. Jesus is the only, and all important person, not Paul, a mere man. Paul is the founder of Christianity, not Jesus. Jesus, the Son of God, was here thirty-some years and he had ample time to say and do everything he wanted to say and do. To think, or suggest otherwise is to suggest that God is incompetent, and that's just blasphemy. And Jesus had 12 personally trained apostles, of which Paul was not one, and Jesus certainly didn't need Paul to finish what Jesus came to do, or to explain any of it to us.

 

POINT 6. It seems reasonable to think that The Urantia Book was dictated by Caligastia [the devil], and his demons.

 

It seems equally reasonable to think that the Bible or large parts of it, particularly the OT, was dictated by Lucifer and his demons. Look how it slanders and contradicts and blasphemes God over and over. Unbelievable.

 

It has no proof for its statements and postulations.

 

It doesn't really need any. You believe in God without any proof. You believe in angels without any proof. And so on. You believe many things without proof. God does not have to prove anything to us.

 

Then said Jesus..., Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe. -John 4:48

 

Whereas, as previously stated, the Bible has been proven to be accurate.

 

This is just standard, Christian boilerplate nonsense. And it's condescending, just like I was talking about above. The Bible is fraught with error and contradictions and inaccuracies. Here's a couple of lists of Biblical error:

 

http://www.freeurantia.org/pro-con.htm

 

http://www.freeurantia.org/bibleinconsistancies.htm

 

POINT 7. If the writings of Paul are false, then not only his writings but also the other books of the New Testament will have to be eliminated from the Bible as they were written by disciples and apostles who agreed with and approved of Paul's teachings!

 

That's really hard to say, and perhaps not all of the writings of Paul are false. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. But Paul was a mere man, and his words that Christians bizarrely consider to be the "word of God" are simply his ideas and opinions. Here's what Jesus said about that, the books of the NT, and to his apostle Nathaniel about the "scriptures." Please read it. Enlighten yourself. "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Don't be afraid.

 

PREVIOUS WRITTEN RECORDS

 

121:8.1 As far as possible, consistent with our mandate, we have endeavored to utilize and to some extent co-ordinate the existing records having to do with the life of Jesus on Urantia. Although we have enjoyed access to the lost record of the Apostle Andrew and have benefited from the collaboration of a vast host of celestial beings who were on earth during the times of Michael’s bestowal (notably his now Personalized Adjuster), it has been our purpose also to make use of the so-called Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

121:8.2 These New Testament records had their origin in the following circumstances:

 

121:8.3 1. The Gospel by Mark. John Mark wrote the earliest (excepting the notes of Andrew), briefest, and most simple record of Jesus’ life. He presented the Master as a minister, as man among men. Although Mark was a lad lingering about many of the scenes which he depicts, his record is in reality the Gospel according to Simon Peter. He was early associated with Peter; later with Paul. Mark wrote this record at the instigation of Peter and on the earnest petition of the church at Rome. Knowing how consistently the Master refused to write out his teachings when on earth and in the flesh, Mark, like the apostles and other leading disciples, was hesitant to put them in writing. But Peter felt the church at Rome required the assistance of such a written narrative, and Mark consented to undertake its preparation. He made many notes before Peter died in A.D. 67, and in accordance with the outline approved by Peter and for the church at Rome, he began his writing soon after Peter’s death. The Gospel was completed near the end of A.D. 68. Mark wrote entirely from his own memory and Peter’s memory. The record has since been considerably changed, numerous passages having been taken out and some later matter added at the end to replace the latter one fifth of the original Gospel, which was lost from the first manuscript before it was ever copied. This record by Mark, in conjunction with Andrew’s and Matthew’s notes, was the written basis of all subsequent Gospel narratives which sought to portray the life and teachings of Jesus.

 

121:8.4 2. The Gospel of Matthew. The so-called Gospel according to Matthew is the record of the Master’s life which was written for the edification of Jewish Christians. The author of this record constantly seeks to show in Jesus’ life that much which he did was that “it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.” Matthew’s Gospel portrays Jesus as a son of David, picturing him as showing great respect for the law and the prophets.

 

121:8.5 The Apostle Matthew did not write this Gospel. It was written by Isador, one of his disciples, who had as a help in his work not only Matthew’s personal remembrance of these events but also a certain record which the latter had made of the sayings of Jesus directly after the crucifixion. This record by Matthew was written in Aramaic; Isador wrote in Greek. There was no intent to deceive in accrediting the production to Matthew. It was the custom in those days for pupils thus to honor their teachers.

 

121:8.6 Matthew’s original record was edited and added to in A.D. 40 just before he left Jerusalem to engage in evangelistic preaching. It was a private record, the last copy having been destroyed in the burning of a Syrian monastery in A.D. 416.

 

121:8.7 Isador escaped from Jerusalem in A.D. 70 after the investment of the city by the armies of Titus, taking with him to Pella a copy of Matthew’s notes. In the year 71, while living at Pella, Isador wrote the Gospel according to Matthew. He also had with him the first four fifths of Mark’s narrative.

 

121:8.8 3. The Gospel by Luke. Luke, the physician of Antioch in Pisidia, was a gentile convert of Paul, and he wrote quite a different story of the Master’s life. He began to follow Paul and learn of the life and teachings of Jesus in A.D. 47. Luke preserves much of the “grace of the Lord Jesus Christ” in his record as he gathered up these facts from Paul and others. Luke presents the Master as “the friend of publicans and sinners.” He did not formulate his many notes into the Gospel until after Paul’s death. Luke wrote in the year 82 in Achaia. He planned three books dealing with the history of Christ and Christianity but died in A.D. 90 just before he finished the second of these works, the “Acts of the Apostles.”

 

121:8.9 As material for the compilation of his Gospel, Luke first depended upon the story of Jesus’ life as Paul had related it to him. Luke’s Gospel is, therefore, in some ways the Gospel according to Paul. But Luke had other sources of information. He not only interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the numerous episodes of Jesus’ life which he records, but he also had with him a copy of Mark’s Gospel, that is, the first four fifths, Isador’s narrative, and a brief record made in the year A.D. 78 at Antioch by a believer named Cedes. Luke also had a mutilated and much-edited copy of some notes purported to have been made by the Apostle Andrew.

 

121:8.10 4. The Gospel of John. The Gospel according to John relates much of Jesus’ work in Judea and around Jerusalem which is not contained in the other records. This is the so-called Gospel according to John the son of Zebedee, and though John did not write it, he did inspire it. Since its first writing it has several times been edited to make it appear to have been written by John himself. When this record was made, John had the other Gospels, and he saw that much had been omitted; accordingly, in the year A.D. 101 he encouraged his associate, Nathan, a Greek Jew from Caesarea, to begin the writing. John supplied his material from memory and by reference to the three records already in existence. He had no written records of his own. The Epistle known as “First John” was written by John himself as a covering letter for the work which Nathan executed under his direction.

 

121:8.11 All these writers presented honest pictures of Jesus as they saw, remembered, or had learned of him, and as their concepts of these distant events were affected by their subsequent espousal of Paul’s theology of Christianity. And these records, imperfect as they are, have been sufficient to change the course of the history of Urantia for almost two thousand years.

 

121:8.12 [Acknowledgment: In carrying out my commission to restate the teachings and retell the doings of Jesus of Nazareth, I have drawn freely upon all sources of record and planetary information. My ruling motive has been to prepare a record which will not only be enlightening to the generation of men now living, but which may also be helpful to all future generations. From the vast store of information made available to me, I have chosen that which is best suited to the accomplishment of this purpose. As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman. When ideas and concepts of Jesus’ life and teachings have been acceptably expressed by a human mind, I invariably gave preference to such apparently human thought patterns. Although I have sought to adjust the verbal expression the better to conform to our concept of the real meaning and the true import of the Master’s life and teachings, as far as possible, I have adhered to the actual human concept and thought pattern in all my narratives. I well know that those concepts which have had origin in the human mind will prove more acceptable and helpful to all other human minds. When unable to find the necessary concepts in the human records or in human expressions, I have next resorted to the memory resources of my own order of earth creatures, the midwayers. And when that secondary source of information proved inadequate, I have unhesitatingly resorted to the superplanetary sources of information.

 

121:8.13 The memoranda which I have collected, and from which I have prepared this narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus—aside from the memory of the record of the Apostle Andrew—embrace thought gems and superior concepts of Jesus’ teachings assembled from more than two thousand human beings who have lived on earth from the days of Jesus down to the time of the inditing of these revelations, more correctly restatements. The revelatory permission has been utilized only when the human record and human concepts failed to supply an adequate thought pattern. My revelatory commission forbade me to resort to extrahuman sources of either information or expression until such a time as I could testify that I had failed in my efforts to find the required conceptual expression in purely human sources.

 

121:8.14 While I, with the collaboration of my eleven associate fellow midwayers and under the supervision of the Melchizedek of record, have portrayed this narrative in accordance with my concept of its effective arrangement and in response to my choice of immediate expression, nevertheless, the majority of the ideas and even some of the effective expressions which I have thus utilized had their origin in the minds of the men of many races who have lived on earth during the intervening generations, right on down to those who are still alive at the time of this undertaking. In many ways I have served more as a collector and editor than as an original narrator. I have unhesitatingly appropriated those ideas and concepts, preferably human, which would enable me to create the most effective portraiture of Jesus’ life, and which would qualify me to restate his matchless teachings in the most strikingly helpful and universally uplifting phraseology. In behalf of the Brotherhood of the United Midwayers of Urantia, I most gratefully acknowledge our indebtedness to all sources of record and concept which have been hereinafter utilized in the further elaboration of our restatement of Jesus’ life on earth.]

 

THE TALK WITH NATHANIEL

 

159:4.1 And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus’ pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: “Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings—the best as I view it—and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?” When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered:

 

159:4.2 “Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

 

159:4.3 “These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

 

159:4.4 “Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

 

159:4.5 “Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies—men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

 

159:4.6 “The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.

 

159:4.7 “The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.

 

159:4.8 “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

 

159:4.9 “But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scriptures is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.

 

159:4.10 “But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations.”

 

159:4.11 Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master’s pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus’ ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master’s instruction.

 

This also means that the first four books of the New Testaments must be done away with as they were also written by disciples quoting Jesus and telling about His life.

 

Oh, it probably doesn't. Try not to be so melodramatic. Bible scholars know full well that many of the words in red in the NT are nothing that Jesus ever said, but rather were put in his mouth much later (long after Jesus died) by well meaning, or not so well meaning people. Bible scholars know that all of the first four books of the NT were written long after Jesus died. Under the circumstances, it's probably not correct to refer to such remembrances of the Master's statements as "quotes."

 

But if the first four gospels were done away with then there would be no writings about Jesus at all.

 

Well, that's your argument. You're the one who is building the straw man case that the books would have to be done away with. But in any case, yes, there would still be writings about Jesus. The Urantia Book contains the real life and teachings of Jesus from human and universe records. The last 700 pages of the book are all about Jesus' life and teachings, in great detail, from both human and celestial records. If you really want to know about Jesus, that's where you'll have to go.

 

This would mean that the complete New Testament cannot be quoted (either as accurate or inaccurate) including the book of Revelation that is quoted in another writing.

 

So what, even if true? There's really no need for the "complete New Testament" anymore. It's obsolete, and certainly flawed. And here's what the Urantia Book says about "the book of Revelation:"

 

139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John’s writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.

 

If the first four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) have to be eliminated, according to the above argument, then the life of Jesus is also eliminated.

 

The "above argument" is YOUR argument. You are arguing with yourself. No, the life of Jesus does not have to be eliminated. But if you only rely on the NT, then you must find out what's true in it and what's not true. You need to investigate and find out what biblical scholars already know. Don't get all your Bible information from fundamentalists who wallow in their fundamentalism and their willful biblical ignorance. In the introduction to “Self-Contradictions of the Bible” by William Henry Burr, R. Joseph Hoffmann writes:

 

“Fundamentalism-the belief that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and literally true word of God-thrives on ignorance, not just of a general sort, but an ignorance of the Bible itself. The ability to perceive contradictions in a written text, to appreciate the nuances of historical and literary context or the intentions that ancient writers hide beneath their words are hard-acquired skills in the best of times. Fundamentalism presupposes none of them.”

 

That excludes the statement "the gospel of Jesus is the true yardstick by which all other gospels should be measured."

 

Pauline Christianity does not teach or preach "the gospel of Jesus." It teaches and preaches a different gospel, the gospel of Paul *about* Jesus. In the writings and ramblings of Paul in Romans 2:16, 16:25, and 2 Timothy 2:8, Paul refers to his teachings about Jesus as "my gospel." In the writings of the real apostles who wrote the first four "gospels," the gospel is referred to as "the gospel of the kingdom" and "the glad tidings of the kingdom." That gospel came from Jesus. See Matthew 9:35, Luke 8:1, Matthew 4:23, Mark 1:14, and Luke 4:43.

 

The "gospel" or "good news" OF Jesus is the one that he taught, the one that HE said would give you eternal life:

 

"Thou shall love God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." And Jesus said to him, "Thou has answered right: this do, and thou shall live."

 

Do you believe Jesus, Jane? That's the gospel of Jesus, above.

 

POINT 8. But by believing that the gospel of Jesus is the true yardstick of all gospels,

 

See above once again. Christians don't believe in "the gospel of Jesus." They believe in the gospel of Paul, the founder of their faith, and the gospel that Paul himself refers to as "my gospel."

 

POINT 9. The Holy Spirit DOES CONVERSE WITH MORTALS ON A ONE-ON-ONE BASIS. In 1st Corinthians 12:1-11 Paul discuses how the Holy Spirit works with and through individual people by giving them spiritual gifts.

 

Nobody really cares what Paul discusses except for followers of Paul. I'm not one of them. Paul is certainly entitled to his opinions, but they're hardly "the word of God," unless of course one chooses to believe they are.

 

POINT 10. (Deleted, irrelevant, Biblical trivia.)

 

On a personal note, myself and two other people witnessed the Holy Spirit leaving a person who had taken back his own self-will and it did appear as a very large flame of fire.

 

Marvelous subjective anecdote, but not helpful. Lots of people think they see lots of stuff, visions, flying saucers, the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, and hear voices. Children at Fatima saw the Virgin Mary and the sun stand still in the sky, according to that legend. Who knows what you saw? I certainly don't.

 

C. The disciples did talk in other languages: Acts: 5-12.

 

That's just more Paul stuff. It's meaningless. Maybe they did. Who knows?

 

POINT 11. On this issue the article is correct in that the Holy Spirit leads. He does not push. However, the Holy Spirit did warn Paul not to go in a direction he was wanting to go. So the Holy Spirit leads, warns when a person is about to do something or go somewhere where God does not want him/her to do or go. The Holy Spirit also comforts all along the way. One of the worst sins if not the worst (and unforgivable) is to credit the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil and his demons.

 

Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul. I once was given a pamphlet while in a laundromat by a wild eyed Christian. In it were 15 quotes. One was from the OT, one was from Jesus, the Son of God himself, and 13 were from Paul. And therein lies a problem. And regarding "unforgivable" sin, Paul says:

 

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things..." -Acts 13:39

 

From ALL THINGS. Indeed. How then can there be "unforgivable" sin? That's nonsense. The Creator of the Universe can certainly forgive whomever he chooses to forgive and for any reason whatsoever. God is not limited in any way. And Jesus said (if anyone cares):

 

"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you." (Matthew 6:14)

 

POINT 12. The Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth are one and the same spirit. In John 14:16-17, Jesus calls the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Truth, the same and one spirit.

 

This is your lucky day. We have more information now, a new revelation from God's government. Avail yourself of it if you are not afraid, and consider how brave your sister is to be unafraid of embracing the new truth and to stand virtually alone against the disapproval of the Pharisees of her day.

 

Take care.

 

Norm.

 

Revised 5-31-05